Ellie & Dan on Style, Love, and Life
Ellie and I became friends in the most natural New York way – friends of friends saying, “You should be friends.” They were right – there were so many reasons for us to be friends. Isn’t that the best?
Ironically, Ellie and I went to undergraduate school together in LA but we never met until New York. Ellie is stylist here in the city and is a born-to-be-influencer. Everything she does is perfectly executed and understated. She is luxurious yet dressed down, earthy yet chic.
One of my favorite things about Ellie is her infectious laugh and Wes Anderson-imbued sense of humor. Ellie is an incredibly present friend, thoughtful about everything she does, and curates her life, outings, activities, and dining in a way that is aspirational and lassez-faire.
Some cool things about Ellie: she started work at Ralph Lauren after pivoting into fashion from engineering. She has her own Substack and website that she personally designed (she made a font out of her own handwriting – too cool). Ellie has fallen in love with a Southern man of similar individual esoteric style and taste. Dan will make a guest appearance here, because we love Dan and all he has to say about style and life, too.
Cozy and warm interior in Dan and Ellie's Brooklyn Heights apartment.
Ellie and Dan go for a walk in Cobble Hill.Helen
Ellie! Let’s talk about where you are today – how did you make it into fashion from engineering? I want to know a little bit about the Paris program and what the whole process has been like for you.
Ellie
A lot to cover! Well, the journey from engineering to fashion was one that it wrote itself, I would say. It was bred from a desire to connect to myself and the things that I was more naturally drawn to, and then turn that into something that I could do from a professional and career standpoint. If my mind is thinking about clothes and fashion, why don't I make that the thing that I also can get paid to do?
Dan
Why did you end up an engineer? You’re a degree engineer. Tell that part.
Ellie
Both my parents are engineers. I think that my brain has always worked very operationally.
Dan
She sees equations everywhere. All over the walls. It's like, Good Will Hunting.
Ellie
As a kid, I was always great at puzzles, great at thinking of things in space. Since my parents were engineers, they always told me I would be great at it. You go from high school to college and it’s really at such a young age that you're presented with this choice of, “What do I want to do?”
I was told I would be good at engineering – so why not? That's what sent me along there. I was also told, “Get the degree and you can do whatever you want with it.” I went for the degree and then I told myself I could go into fashion. It wasn't until I got close to graduating where I really appreciated I could do whatever I wanted. You can work in aerospace, you can work in tech, you can work wherever.
Dan
After a stint at Boeing – don't leave that out!
Ellie
Yes, I worked at Boeing, and that, I think, was when I had my moment of, here I am, trying to get excited, to get dressed in the morning, get to work, get to express myself. I think I realized, quickly, I need to be able to do this in a way that's bigger than just showing up to work and wearing what I think will make me feel good that day. So that was the seed that influenced a years-long – multiple years long – journey to eventually end up here.
Helen
Speaking of the journey that got you here – we should focus on one of your more transformative steps – a move to Paris. Tell us about how that came to be.
Ellie
I grew up traveling and moving around a lot, so change is something that I've learned to embrace and appreciate – and use as a lens to explore different facets of myself. Every time when we were young and we moved to a new city or a new country or a new whatever-it-was, it was like, “Okay, what's the new Ellie that exists in this place?”
On the journey to finding my way into where I am now, I went to Paris on a solo trip. Anybody that's been to Paris knows that it’s a transformative place. As a place that really honors art and living – and when you are at a place where you want to dive into that a little bit more – Paris just seems like the exact answer.
With Paris as the goal, I had to figure out how to make it an experience that would both expand my life in the way I was craving, but also set me up for the career that I was looking for too. That’s where this opportunity to go to school came up. It became a chance to take back my education and experience, allowing me to dive into everything with fresh eyes and give myself the opportunity to explore something that I hadn't given myself the chance to before.
Helen
What did you learn about yourself in Paris as it relates to your specific interests in fashion and maybe your taste? What impact did the program make on you?
Ellie
One interesting thing I took from Paris as a whole and the program was that I connected with how innately American I am in terms of the types of designs that I was drawn to, the types of brands that I was really inspired by, and also the nature of business and the way that people work. I think Parisians and Europeans broadly have such a sensibility, from the avant-garde way of looking at clothes to the joie de vivre nature of living.
I realized while I was there that I will only adapt so much. At the end of the day, to me, what’s most inspiring is just this core American nature of dressing and the inspirations that pull from that. So ironically, I realized that a place like Ralph Lauren, which is where I am now, was exactly the brand that I wanted to be part of.
Helen
You go to Paris just to find out you want to go home (laughs).
Ellie
Yes. I realized “Okay, I actually know where I belong and what I'm drawn to is the place that I've been raised.”
Helen
I think so much about fashion is the more you see and understand, you have a greater appreciation for what's differentiated. American style is definitely differentiated.
Ellie
There's something so aspirational and so... How would you describe it, Dan?
Dan
Well, maybe what you're getting at with the aspirational thing is that it is tied to something that's core about being American – we're not tied into a class structure. Certainly the way the English are – that's very apparent in London. And the French, to a certain extent. They took most of the people to the guillotines that would have enforced the class structure (laughs), but it's still there and was for a really long time.
I think that's just something that Americans reject. Ralph Lauren created the example that anyone should be able to dress like they lead this lifestyle that he does. I don't know if I agree with that – but I think that is the American aspirational way of dressing: being who you want and wearing clothes as a way to communicate that to other people.
Helen
American style embraces freedom and mobility. The idea that you can wear jeans anywhere in America. That's so classically American. Whereas if you were in London and going to one of the social clubs and wearing jeans, it would be totally unacceptable. I did this recently. I was the only one in jeans – not in tailored pants or a skirt. Horrific.
Dan
Yes, that hit me hard when Elllie and I were in London for Wimbledon. I remember I felt like I packed totally wrong because the cities are so different. Although, I've always felt I've never packed wrong for Paris. I think jeans and a white T-shirt can play really well there. But in London, I felt underdressed everywhere.
Helen
I did, too.
Dan
In a very real way. In a way I didn’t like. It wasn't the underdressed where I was like, “Oh, I wish I had brought other stuff.” I was more of like, “Fuck this (laughs).”
I'm not going to wear a slim fit. There's no summer linen shirt like an English guy in Chelsea would wear. I would look silly. When people are wearing clothes that aren't comfortable or don't feel like themselves, then they move weird. Right? You can see it. I don't like moving weird (laughs).
Helen
That's also very American, too. This idea of comfortability.
Ellie
That's what I was just thinking as well. The American nature of dressing is very approachable. It's very casual. It has a lot of that natural sensibility to it. There's so many different genres within that kind of comfortability and within American style. But at the end of the day, it's all quite approachable. I feel like there's no American style that's not approachable.
Helen
Affordable, too. What Ralph has done is amazing because he's made the most affordable, approachable clothing, and made it luxury and high-end. Sure, you can pay high prices for all these things. But to their core, anyone can buy a pair of jeans. It’s what you do with the jeans and the shape and the silhouette and the dye and all that. That’s what brings in personal expression.
That leads us to the next topic. Personal style and expression. I feel like American style encapsulates a lot of your look. I want to talk about your personal style because I think it incorporates American style, but also other elements are very organic. There's some Parisian in there. I think you think about silhouette a lot. Also, how many pants do you own?
Dan
Yeah. I’d like to know that.
Ellie
It's got to be upwards of... I have at least 40 pairs of pants.
Helen
The first time I saw her closet, I was like, “That is the most pants I've ever seen in my life.”
Ellie
Pants are king.
Dan
Not queen?
Ellie
King. King, for sure!
Ellie
I have explored style through so many different phases of my life. It's been such a journey of finding myself in it. Getting dressed is like putting on your costume or your outward signal to the world of who you are, what you care about, what you do, and the things that you're interested in.
I think that I really like to dress in a way that is as blank canvas as it can be. I love to be comfortable. I love when you have a mix of things that fit baggy with things that are more fitted or where there is a balance of skin and boyishness. Having all of that in one outfit is the balance that I try to strike across the different seasons that I'm dressing for.
Then the character gets to be added through the small little pieces, whether it be a pair of sunglasses, or a cool hat, or whatever bag or shoes that you put on. Those are the devices that bring so much expression forth, and that enable you to pick up those things along your journey while keeping the core of what you're wearing the same.
Helen
You don't stray, I feel, from your vibe.
Ellie
No. I used to, though! Through the various different phases of moving and cleaning up closets…there was a point in time where I had dresses with floral patterns, or I had colors here and there. Those were all different versions of me trying to figure out where my center is.
I think with fashion and with getting dressed, it has to be innately tied to who you are, because otherwise, and increasingly more and more, it's so easy to get swayed in the direction of, “Okay, it's spring, so take out your dresses, take out your floral, start wearing these colors.” And if you don't have your sense of self in that, then you end up dressing in a way that isn’t authentic. In having consistency across seasons, it becomes a lot easier and a lot more comfortable to get dressed and to step out.
Dan
It's hard. It's like authenticity through a series of really inauthentic choices. But that's everything. That's dressing. It’s also just life.
Helen
I think to develop taste, you have to try. There’s going to be failure.
Dan
I always appreciate the structures of things I grew up in. I am from the South and I have a Southern mom. So as long as I wasn't dressing myself, I was dressed like a little Ralph Lauren catalog. Like a little boy in a Polo in boat shoes. And then I started skateboarding and tried to totally reject that. I started wearing black skinny jeans, black T-shirts, and had long hair. That whole thing. Then I went to college and changed back after joining a Southern fraternity and I dressed exactly like how you would picture that. I owned Vineyard Vines – it was crazy.
You look back thinking, “Jesus, none of that was me.” Although it's funny, there are still elements of all of that in how I get dressed now. I am still a preppy kid that dresses how his mom would have wanted a five year old to dress. All these inauthentic choices lead to a place where I'm like, “Well, I did love all of that.” I wouldn't wear any of the Vineyard Vines anymore (laughs).
Helen
Sometimes it’s nostalgia – you want to incorporate it.
Ellie
I saw some of his Nantucket reds in our storage locker yesterday.
Helen
You guys have drawn a lot of inspiration from each other.
Ellie
Dan has very quickly and seamlessly become one of my greatest style influences. He’ll walk out with an outfit, and I'll go into my closet and put on the same thing that he's wearing. I think that’s such a nice representation, too, of just our relationship. There's a comfortability there. Also, Dan thinks a lot about the origin of style, like, “Why are people wearing this sweatshirt from this brand?” He’s pulled me back into this simplicity and knowledge of dressing.
Dan
I think that comes from my love of skateboarding and then also punk and indie music. The last thing you would ever want to be called is a “poser”. This idea of don’t wear that thing if you can't back it up with skill, knowledge, or something. And that's just not how people get dressed anymore.
Helen
I like that because I think it says so much about having a reason for why you care about what you're wearing or what you're doing intentionally. We live in a world of fast fashion, influencers, and hyper, hyper-consumption. People don't even know where their clothes are coming from. To go back to a place of, “I really care about these guys who make these jeans in Japan. They’re a small team, and I follow their story.” Whatever it is – just to have a little bit more connection in a world that's so inundated with imagery and different styles you could adopt.
Dan
I do think people need to understand more that getting dressed is a language. What are you communicating to people? I think people should care more about that and be thoughtful about the message you're sending. I mean, I probably think about it too much. I think it's neurotic, the level I do. So, there’s probably a middle ground.
Dan and his fit: loafers, denim, white tee, baseball cap, and Hervé Chapelier shopping bag.
Dan's crosswords and clam hand drawing (a new hobby).Helen
Ellie, I think your look is about fabric, shape, and feel. You mentioned skin. For me, the most iconic thing about your style is your hair, which I know sounds crazy, but I think it influences a lot of the way you dress. It's this wild, crazy, beautiful thing, and that's your personality as well. The way that you dress communicates an energy, which is perhaps more feminine. For Dan there is a refinement, a history and a sensibility, which I think you appreciate as well. When I think of you, I think so much of cotton, linen, wools, whatever it is. Do you relate to that?
Ellie
What I try to emulate in the way I dress and in my space is an ease and a comfort. If you want to think about it from a fashion point of view, fabric and fit are two of the ways that you get to do that. It’s how things feel on your body, whether it be 100% linen, or 100% silk or cotton or whatever it is. Just leaning into natural fibers. To take a look at my hair, I am of course a very low maintenance person, and I believe things will be what they are (laughs). So I guess that comes through in the way that I dress.
Helen
Not a lot of fuss.
Ellie
Yeah. Because once you start, the second you start trying too hard or thinking too much, you lose yourself in it because you're not doing it for yourself anymore, really. I think in that journey of finding self and exploration, it was like, “Just do the things that you know, put on the clothes that you know that you like, and don't try and fuss around with it.”
Helen
This brings us to the next question: what have you learned works with style?
Ellie
Let's think. To caveat, what works for everybody is different person to person. I am drawn to a sense of balance. From a fit perspective, if you're wearing something baggy, the other thing should balance it out, and should be tighter or smaller. A little bit of masculinity with a little bit of sex. There's nothing that's better than that. Or daytime with a little bit of nighttime. There's something really cool about that. I think the New York nature comes in there as well because we're always dressing for an entirety of a day.
Helen
What does not work with style? You mentioned florals…
Ellie
I see people all the time who will wear florals with the contrasting print and with color and it looks amazing. And for a second, I'm like, “Should I? I wonder…should I try florals again?” But then it’s about pulling back to yourself and who you are.
Dan
Absolutely. I think the more you learn and know, you can appreciate and understand when something isn't for you. Famously, Jonathan Anderson wears old jeans and a navy crew neck sweater, and he's designing some of the most exciting clothes in the world. I think there is a way of knowing and appreciating something. You can look at a beautiful piece of art and not necessarily want to put it on your body. Some things are cool but they’re for other people. And just because you don't wear it doesn't mean you don't like it and appreciate it.
Ellie and Dan outside of their Brooklyn Heights apartment.
Ellie pointing to her favorite decorative touches, including Dan's hand drawing.Helen
Shifting gears now – let’s talk about love! What was dating life like pre-Dan? What was meeting Dan like?
Ellie
Well, Dan and I met on the internet.
Dan
A forum. We met on the Reddit chat (laughs).
Ellie
We met on deep Reddit (laughs sarcastically). Well, okay, let me set the scene before I met Dan.
Ellie
In general, Dan came into my life when I really had clicked into myself. I had already had many journeys in life and as an individual and was figuring out who I was and what I was excited about. Part of that journey was, “How do I like to dress? How do I like to present myself? What do I like?”
I think through the process of figuring out who you are, part of that is done through spending time with different people and exploring what partner you want and what life you want to build with somebody. I feel like everybody goes through that in their own way and in their own time.
Some people meet who they're going to be with at a young age, and they grow alongside each other. I was somebody who was used to living in a place for a number of years and then moving again and trying on a new skin. That definitely came through the different people that I dated and the experiences I had dating. When I met Dan, I had just as deep of an understanding and acceptance of myself as I had ever had. That was when I was like, “How do I like to feel and who brings that out of me?” I found that with my friends at a young age, which I feel so grateful for. Ultimately I said, “Okay, what partner can I find that in as well?” I wanted to be with someone who made me feel like even more of myself.
Ellie (continued)
For our first date, we went to a diner in Brooklyn Heights, and we said we were going to have a glass of wine and fries.
Dan
She ran up the tab (laughs). I invited her for wine and fries, but then we also got chicken tenders. And latkes with smoked salmon. And a Caesar salad.
Ellie
And an ice cream sundae!
Dan
You give an inch and they take a mile (laughs).
Ellie
Before walking into that date, I was like, “I'm not wearing makeup. I'm not dressing in a way that I feel like I should dress for a first date with somebody. I am showing up fully myself.”
It was the ability to do that and continue to do that with Dan, I think, that has been one of the things that makes me feel the most comfortable in our relationship. From the first date, he made me laugh a ton. He was easy to talk to. He listened to everything I said, which was crazy because I definitely did not listen to everything that he said (laughs).
Helen
What about you, Dan? What clicked?
Dan
She's just super hot (laughs). Like, mega babe. She was wearing a jedi hood. On our first date.
Ellie
It was a balaclava (laughs).
Dan
I think I was super nervous for the first date. It was the middle of winter and I got there half an hour early. I paced all the streets of Brooklyn Heights in the freezing cold. I thought to myself, “I can’t do this anymore. So I'm just going to go in and be early. I'll sit at the bar.” So then I texted her, “I'm sitting at the bar”, and then our table was ready. So I moved to the table. So I texted, “I'm not at the bar anymore (laughs).”
When she walked in, I was like, “I'm just so fucked.” No, but I do think it just felt good. I think it's something that is really easy to forget. I think you can date for so long, and because nothing's clicking and nothing's feeling good and right, we all can create lists. I have friends that do this, and I think it's more common than not. “I want someone that does this job. I want them to be from this school.” We can all make lists, which are really just a stand-in for something clicking, because all of that goes out the window when it works. So what’s the purpose of the list in the first place? I had forgotten that sometimes things can just feel good.
It just works. I think that's why they call it chemistry. Everything felt pretty clear to me, and I just wanted to be around Ellie ever since. You know what I mean? For example, I really value alone time – especially after socializing. It’s really rare that I leave an interaction and I'm like, “I need more time with that person”. But that’s how I feel every time with Ellie. I just need more time. And for me, I don't need more time with anyone. So that's really good.
Helen
That's huge. Beyond chemistry, you both have talked about having a shared vision for life.
Ellie
When we met, Dan was 34. I was 28. Now we're 35 and 29, respectively. I think we both lived a lot of our lives before we met each other, and we had very full experiences. We both have a lot of connectivity to who we are as individuals. It just so happens we are naturally in the same place with that.
We value the same things – whether it be always having good white wine on hand, to the way that we like to treat people, to the way that we like to dress, to the family we want to create. There's just a lot of natural similarity and overlap. That provides the ease to just know, “Okay, I don't need to convince this person to want to do this the way that I want to do it because they, in their own right, already want to do things in that way.”
Dan
Yeah, I agree. We have a similar approach to living and taste, but not identical taste. The approach to living is the important part because nothing we express to each other about a desire is treated as silly. It can be sometimes. I think even my own family would think it's silly how much I would consider a tablecloth or something like that. They're not like me in that way.
I think Ellie really, really meets me in a place where...I don't even have to explain why purchasing a tablecloth is a big deal. Much of those early stage things are just already answered. It just moves into, “Okay, well, what tablecloth do you want?” The concept of caring enough about stuff is just already checked. We don't think the things each other wants are silly. Not that our relationship is solely based on buying stuff.
Helen
I think it's about creating a feeling or shared vision. Even if it's about what city you guys will live in, if it’s New York or contemplating a move to San Francisco one day. It's not so much about objects or anything stuffy.
Ellie
The way that we want to feel!
Dan
She fucks with the vision.
Helen
Dan, now turning to your personal style. What are the pillars of your style?
Dan
I was born and raised in Kentucky and was there till I was 22. My dad is from the North Shore of Massachusetts. We would spend all our summers up there growing up. The North Shore of Massachusetts is almost more Maine-like than Cape Cod. Not many sandy beaches — it’s a lot more rocky and rugged. Still very New England-ey. Those are the two sensibilities that really speak to me. It's certainly Southern, but not as preppy as Georgia or South Carolina. Central Kentucky, where I am from, is much more informed by the horse industry – think Southern equine. You get a lot of beat-up old Barbour coats paired with old jeans. I think a good example is my belt, which is a horse bridal belt. Horses have their names on their necks. Growing up, everyone has those belts in Kentucky.
Anyway, I mentioned moving through all the phases: my mom dressing me preppy, getting more into skateboarding and punk rock music in middle school. I tried to reject all of that when I went to college and did the Southern fraternity thing. I definitely rubber banded back and forth. I was trying to figure out who I am.
I was much more wholesome when I was wearing punk band T-shirts and more of a monster when I was a preppy Southern fraternity boy. It’s funny, the more aggressive way of dressing was when I was a more harmonious person. But maybe you have to dress clean-cut to be able to justify bad behavior (laughs). I think now I've come to a point where all of that is present in the way I dress. I think one day I’ll surprise you and come out in all black (laughs). It all comes from a place of someone I've been before.
Ellie
I think Dan’s style is a Venn diagram between Kentucky horse culture and then rugged New England and then this downtown New York vibe. He sits somewhere in the middle. I’ll never forget what he was wearing the first month into our dating. I have a picture of it, too. He had on vintage Levi's and cowboy boots, none of this was ironic, and a Patagonia jacket on with a beanie just above his head, which…
Dan
I work in a creative agency. They make you wear that.
Helen
(Laughs) Okay, and lastly – we need to know – what should men always do when it comes to fashion? What should people stop doing right now?
Dan
I don’t know, what should people start doing and stop doing? I think people should start using their Instagram algorithm in a different way. I think if something you own or want appears on your algorithm, dump it. I think so many people use it as a way to decide what to wear. All of these white Sambas? People should be more embarrassed!
Also, I think being comfortable is embarrassing. Sitting on the subway as a man? Embarrassing. Reclining your seat on an airplane? Embarrassing. You shouldn't. Men shouldn't be comfortable. I think kicking it in public is so undignified. You have to be ready. Also, when men justify purchases citing comfortability. What happened to saying, “That thing is beautiful. I want to wear it on my body.”
Helen
So you’re saying, if it’s on your algorithm and you're seeing it, maybe take a beat. Maybe that is the healthiest thing.
Dan
It goes so far beyond clothes, too. I have some friends who I think have full algorithm lives. Their olive oil is the Grazza squeeze bottle. Their coffee is Blank Street. I'm like, “You just love venture capital.” Although, there’s a butt
for every seat. Things belong where they belong. Like Madhappy in Los Angeles. There, it probably is legible. I think people need to think of clothing as legible. Outfits should be legible. I think of it like a sentence structure. To me, in downtown New York, MadHappy, I can't read it. In Brentwood, that’s legible. Although, I think I'm not legible in London…I think I probably looked out of water. I was cool with that.
Helen
Okay, last question for Dan. Is Ellie your muse?
Dan
I think so. Much great art has been made because there's a beautiful woman around. You have to have a reason to get up in the morning. I don't think anyone would have painted or hunted. In all seriousness though, I'm lucky that she's not only beautiful but also a really good person. She’s great to be around.
Now that I think of it, I don't know if she's my muse because I wouldn't say I'm an artist, but she is my inspiration and reason to get up and try to be a little better each day.
Helen
To wrap it up – what do you hope the next five years will look like, and where do you think it'll take you? What do you want life to feel like?
Ellie
I want more of what we've already got, honestly. I think that's the best part. We just want more of this in different ways and with new experiences, whether that be new places to travel or new places to live or new people in the room, whatever it is.
I don’t want to get greedy with it.
